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Post by Vibe on Jul 4, 2011 3:19:42 GMT -5
Hey guys. You know what's up with this situation. I say we do something creative. We go back to invite only, but give every Rx member the power to invite. There's enough of us that it's almost the same as open invite Everyone prospects, and only one prospect at a time. This will allow us to focus our energy on honing DF skills, and also cut down on the possibility of us losing track of prospect progress, which we have in the past. One at a time is easy to keep track of. This is the personality and familiarity aspect, because only familiar names should get invites. The prospect phase should be used to hone their skills on the grid. Prospect phase is 1 month (seems to have worked in the past), at the end of which, a skills evaluation (1v1: 10 points) is made by an examiner of the current DF warlord's choosing, followed by a clan vote on whether to accept or deny entry to Rx. Pretty solid, and we have a shit ton of members, so the strictness won't hurt us much. It's always up for debate/discussion though
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Post by iNoob on Jul 4, 2011 23:45:23 GMT -5
Yeah, i think we've tried out this new system and i don't think its working. It was way better how it was before. I agree with you on going back to invite online. that way we don't have to make hard decisions every time someone apps lol. Plus it takes us FOREVER to give someone an answer. it's almost embarrassing. I'm not quite sure of giving EVERYONE the ability to invite. o.0 I get tricked a lot. . .what if there's like tons of invites o.o maybe just certain members? The ones who will choose wisely. I like the idea of going back to RxP too. Everyone should go threw it. But one month is too much punishment. I feel sad when there's such nice members, and they're still RxP. I say we should do it depending on what we see. Anytime we think their Prospect phase should be done, someone make a poll in Rx only, then we vote to keep it going or to take it off. But there should still be a minimal time for having RxP. Maybe like a week or something. After that, Rx members are welcome to poll if they think the person is ready to be full Rx. We shouldn't look into DF skills either, or any skills at all. I say pure personality, or at least 99% of it. We should give even the noobs a chance to get into a decent clan (Rx ). besides, once you go in Rx, you can be assured you will go pro sooner or later. I mean, look at Lime, or mose, or Pie, or msot of the Rx.Warriors who really want to learn to df. They've shown amazing improvement sense they've joined. Lime and Mose were complete, and i mean COMPLETE noobs when they first joined. Look at them now. They can beast the shit out of me. So yeah, i say we do this mostly on personality, and try to ignore the skill for the most part. I always remember of Supra when we think of letting someone in Rx because of skill. We were used. and it's not Supra's fault, but it's ours. We should've seen he has no respect for Rx. That's why we have 3 amazing leaders<3 who keep the system going I don't think the skill evaluation is necessary either. remember, the charter says tihs is a chill back clan. I believe this clan shouldn't force members to participate in any wars, or to even be good. As long as they stay active, and enjoy playing the game, its all good. Maybe once they join Rx, if i think they're good enough, ill ask them if they want to become warrior (i do that already, to see if they want to participate in wars or not). if i ask someone to be warrior, they're automatically in. (like odd). If someone ask me (like who?), they have to beat me in a 1 on 1. Or at least impress me during the 1 on 1. and no i really don't mean to offend anyone here, but this new system is completely BULLSHIVIK. The people who i thought would be accepted got denied. The people who i thought would be denied got fucking accepted. I fucking hate math/numbers, and i can't keep up with this new system. I feel like i have to cheat it every time just to get it my way. For example, if i want someone in as prospect (i should vote 7), but i see the rest of the votes are low, ill vote a 10 to increase the guys chances. Or if i dont want him in at all, ill vote a 0, instead of giving him some credit. Might just be me, idk. I like the way it was before. Voting yes/no. I thought it worked fine. it would work especially if we went back to invite only. Well i think thats all. love you vibe, duke, and Who? <333
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Post by slyfoxx on Jul 5, 2011 0:17:50 GMT -5
I can't agree more with iBoob. His titful words were orgasmic and pleasuring in every way. I like his idea for invites, but I don't feel like he explained it well enough. What I think would be cool is if someone needs atleast 5 invites or something similar. So then we know they're not some noob and that will cut down supra's and Rock's. I love you vibe, don't ban me plox.
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Post by iNoob on Jul 5, 2011 7:34:18 GMT -5
Disagreed. Remember how it was before sly? It was hard to get in Rx. Getting 5 invites would make it ridiculously hard to get into the clan. We should just make it 1 invite like it was before? Don't you think that'd be best? That's why you have more steps then that. 1. Invitation. 2. Application 3. People Vote. 4. PROSPECT. We have more requirements then most of the clans out there. Not everyone can be family! I think you miss-understood what i was trying to say. I simply meant to give certain people the ability to invite people into the clan. I mean, you wouldn't want someone like Twiz to be inviting people. He's invite Ultra, Syn, Broken, all the other fags (syns not a fag). He's base his invites on pure skillz. Plus, everyone would be required to be RxP (for at least a week, up to a month) to help us make our decision. Remember, this is just my idea! tell me what you guys think
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Post by slyfoxx on Jul 5, 2011 16:07:01 GMT -5
That makes sense, but I don't understand why not everyone in rx can invite. We shouldn't have any kind of problem with anyone in rx, because we're all family.. So we should trust one of another.
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Post by iNoob on Jul 5, 2011 20:28:18 GMT -5
Did you not see my example?
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Post by dukevin on Jul 6, 2011 4:46:06 GMT -5
I'll write up a full essay on my thoughts/feelings in a while, but for now.. I'm writing 3 history essays. Yay!
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pie
Ex-Rx
Posts: 320
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Post by pie on Jul 6, 2011 12:11:10 GMT -5
i like your idea jon, yours too sly. I think it should be harder to get into rx tho. We have enough members as is, and if its harder to get in we'll have better people in the clan
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Post by iNoob on Jul 6, 2011 13:03:27 GMT -5
As i said before, we shouldnt make it about skill. It should be about personality. WEll, thats my thought on it
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Post by dukevin on Jul 7, 2011 2:07:38 GMT -5
I also think the current voting system needs an overhaul but only because people, including myself, are too lazy to post a full evaluation with all the numbers. I don't know what you're talking about inoob, when you say people who shouldn't have gotten in, got in. (you should PM me so you don't have to name names) But I know a few that you supported, didn't get accepted, but that's only because 7 is a high number to achieve.
There are several things I don't like about invite only. 1. every damned person that shouldn't be in the clan will ask for an invite, non stop, whereas now, we can be like "go ahead and app"... For example SpAwN... before this, it was nagging me non stop, same with powerx, but now its just "app, reject". 2. Lots of people don't have the guts to ask, and we don't give them invites because we don't know they are interested. Think about when mAd asked. He's super chill and he barely felt like he could ask for an invite, mainly because he probably didn't feel it was his place to ask. No way I'd know to give him an invite either. 3. Allowing only certain people to give invites (like captain and above) creates a bureaucracy in the clan and divides the "family". While allowing anyone to invite defeats the purpose that can be achieved with a different voting system.
Vibe, I don't really agree with a heavy emphasis on skills evaluation either, and inoob's examples are what I'd say to that. Also don't feel like 1 applicant at a time is good either. What if we're prospecting this "so-so" person and some fucking titful person apps? We'll just be like, "yo sorry but you gotta wait a month and then app and then another month for your prospect".
Ok, so I know everyone here is craving for yes/no votes because they're easy and make since. But 2 things I don't like about it: 1. It makes Rx a lot easier to get accepted into. Half the time we'll be like meh, and vote "yes" and the 1 person who votes no, we'll be like "wait wtf who voted no?" And no explanation afterwards. This happened a lot, anyone who got an invite, was in. No matter what. (yes every applicant got in) 2. A strong No weighs the same as a halfass "meh" from someone who visits forums like once every 3 weeks.
So this is what I suggest, we go back to polls, but it'll look like this: --------------------------- Vote for some human! Pick one score and one status: [ ] 1 [ ] 2 [ ] 3 [ ] 4 [ ] 5 [ ] Prospect [ ] Apprentice [ ] Full -------------------------- Accepted could be an average of 4 or something And to prevent voting bias, scores will be hidden until you vote
And from my experience, when people evaluate, they would be like "meh, but let him prospect.. wait wtf he didn't get in? this system fails (ahem WHO and a few others)". My response to that is.. that isn't a family score, so those kind of scores should be rejected. We're too big already.
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Post by iNoob on Jul 8, 2011 10:43:33 GMT -5
I never had a problem with people asking for invites. No one really asked me repeatedly after i told them it's invite only. You just need to learn how to tell them to gtfo after they ask too much. You're too nice duke. And i would've never invited mAd either. Pro's don't usually look into Rx. But if we do go back to invite only, it'll just mean we'll have to look in all directions to hand out invites to players who deserve it. Not just the noobs. And i agree with you on the invites part. . Maybe we could try out your new scoring system sounds like it would work. But why do we need to numbers if we have Rx.A Rx.P and Rx as choices?
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Post by iNoob on Jul 8, 2011 11:59:28 GMT -5
I'd also like to add that the current system is the same thing as having Rxp. We don't give them an answer till like a month later after they, making us similar to other clans, having them wait. It's not an automatic accept/reject.
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pie
Ex-Rx
Posts: 320
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Post by pie on Jul 8, 2011 16:31:03 GMT -5
When u mean automatic reject/accept do u mean within a couple of days, within that week, or that day? Because it would be harder to do that seeing that we would need inputs right away
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Post by Vibe on Jul 9, 2011 6:24:13 GMT -5
As duke said, when I have ample time, I'll develop a well thought out and pointed response with my organized thoughts. There's a lot to touch on and it's late here. Sleep calls to me at this particular juncture in time.
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Post by Vibe on Jul 12, 2011 4:43:08 GMT -5
Alright, everyone had awesome points, and I've tried to come up with something that might accommodate all of them, as long as we can all deal with a little compromise here and there.
We've established that personality is more important than skill, and it's been demonstrated that playing with skilled players is the best acceleration of ability on the grids. So I concede that we do not need any skills evaluations, but this just means we will have to be extra careful on the personality aspect of the process.
The prospect period may be too long for some players, but there are other times when the full month is a good prep period for shedding a "P", so we leave the Prospect length open ended (2-weeks minimum, 1 month maximum). I know that waiting for an answer on the application process can be a tedious wait, but I also believe that it's a necessary evil. The applicants we're excited about we usually vote on early, and the ones we're not so excited about or familiar with either get pissed and withdraw or wait it out.
I see this as a Shaolin kinda thing. The guy that waits outside the temple for weeks demonstrates his resolve. We've allowed members into the clan early in the past based solely upon demonstrations of their dedication. So maybe we can leave the applications open, but also leave the invitation question on the application. That way we can still screen members, and the individual prominence of an invitation can be gauged by the magnitude of the Rx member who is named on the application, if any.
The invitation only system leaves too much room for error, and also creates an additional hierarchy question as to who gets the power to invite and so on. As we all consider ourselves on the same level around here, I think we should work to avoid anymore separation of power within the clan.
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Post by dukevin on Jul 12, 2011 5:52:24 GMT -5
But why do we need to numbers if we have Rx.A Rx.P and Rx as choices? Right now, the numbers descide RxA RxP, but with the new system I proposed, the only thing the numbers do are allow for variation in votes. For example, you can give a Strong No (1) or a Weak No (2) and everything in between. Its only to allow for more flexibility and accuracy when you vote, not just black/white. You can vote dark gray for example And vote RxP, RxA separately Vibe: So you propose everyone does RxP for a few days or a week, but we can extend that time to our liking. I'm down for that. I think that we can make the poll something like: Pick one score and one status: [ ] 1 [ ] 2 [ ] 3 [ ] 4 [ ] 5 [ ] No Status [ ] Extended Prospect [ ] Apprentice and that way if most of us chose extended prospect, we can discuss how much longer to extend or when s/he's ready
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Post by Vibe on Jul 12, 2011 15:59:22 GMT -5
--------------------------- Vote for some human! Pick one score and one status: [ ] 1 [ ] 2 [ ] 3 [ ] 4 [ ] 5 [ ] Prospect [ ] Apprentice [ ] Full-------------------------- I think this would be genius for APPLICANTS if we removed the "Full" option. The averaged score determines whether the person gets accepted or not, and the status choice determines that IF accepted, this is where they start. When a prospect's vote comes up, we should just have options like we have in the past, such as yes, no, or extend prospect phase. This leaves room for those of us that are doing the "eh" thing to be able to pick an extension and argue their case. The best way to do this is to try and not cover the variables with numbers in place of talking it out on forums like we usually do. Our little model democracy is the shit because we all offer different angles on each issue. It also might not hurt to try and keep just that ONE section on the forum pseudo-serious and topic-relevant for the sake of our poor applicants. Too much off topic banter and jibber-jabber has waylaid applicants for weeks in the past. It's unfair.
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mose
Rx.Lieutenant
Posts: 138
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Post by mose on Jul 21, 2011 15:18:57 GMT -5
my head hurts a little, but it sounds good so far!
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Post by dukevin on Jul 23, 2011 6:52:39 GMT -5
Ok, seeing as discussion died, I'll go ahead and start using this format. Let's see how it works!
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Post by Who? on Aug 8, 2011 20:28:12 GMT -5
Dear Rxers,
Damn, wish I weighed in on this earlier. I think what you guys are working out sounds great. I do have a few thoughts about the app process though. First, I think that anyone who applies, who we don't know, should be rejected. Second, I think that we should give applications a one week deadline. That's right, if we don't know you, you don't get in, and we will give you an answer within a week! I know, I know, you are probably thinking "but Who, what if a couple of people don't get to vote? What if they are late?!?!?" or "We won't have enough time to get to know the applicant!" or "I wonder what Who looks like naked?" All of this and more will be answered, I promise!
This, my friends, is the way I see it:
The prospect period should be the de facto period where we decide if an applicant becomes a member of the clan, not the application process. The app process should be where we decide if they are going to be fully evaluated. As Vibe said, personality is a governing factor in this process, but I do feel that familiarity is a big part as well. In fact, I think that these two concepts should govern together with familiarity being a little more important. The more everybody is familiar with a person, the higher the likelihood of acceptance (assuming they have that certain "cool" factor). But that "cool" factor means nothing if you don't know them a little first. Remember, first impressions can often be misleading and someone who seems really cool at first could be a big flabby douche after you get to know them. So being cool shouldn't stand alone as grounds for acceptance. Alternatively, someone who seems like a dick at first could be really cool once you get to know them. So being a dick shouldn't stand alone as grounds for rejection either. There needs to be a familiarity factor.
I feel that, since we are growing every day, we have a little room to be picky. I know some of you feel the same way. Not saying we should be snobs about it, just that we should choose our members wisely. If we were to limit how long an app is open, we could help insure that we are familiar with an applicant and (as vibe said) test their resolve. Remember, people can apply multiple times. If they apply and no one knows them, we could kindly and promptly reject their app and explain (with a standard reject) that they can app again and that they should hang around our servers and get to know everyone if they are interested in joining. If they truly want to be part of our clan, they will come back as many times as it takes. If everyone decides that they know the person, and they are pretty cool, vote for them to prospect and see how they act while wearing tags. If they act like assholes, then we reject them.
Let me harp on the "People won't have enough time to vote!" argument that I'm sure will come up. Keep in mind, that there will NEVER be an app where every Rxer weighs in. If we were to force a decision after a week, all of the active Rxers should have more than enough time to weigh in, especially if we make it clear to everyone on the forum that there is an app evaluation posted. Remember, the prospect period is where the real in/out votes should be cast.
I know, I know, you are probably thinking "What if a week goes by and an evaluation hasn't even been posted yet and no one knew?" Fear not my loves! I will make a promise to Rx. But promises don't come free, so listen up!
If you guys will promise to take the evaluation process seriously and do your best to make meaningful posts promptly, I will promise to personally check the app section every day and remind you guys when I see you on the grid or the forum if we have an app.
I know, I know, you are probably thinking "WTF Who, your (you're*) full of shit, you lazy bastard!" Well, I'm here to tell you I'm not. I will keep my promise, if you guys keep yours.
And for the record, I look like Jesus wrapped in bacon dipped in ecstasy riding a giant domesticated reptile naked.
Love, Who?
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Post by dukevin on Aug 11, 2011 6:44:01 GMT -5
im down, let's do it who.
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Post by Who? on Aug 11, 2011 11:52:58 GMT -5
Word, maybe we should add an option to the polls for "idk who the fuck this is"? Also, possibly add something to the charter about it?
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Post by dukevin on Aug 18, 2011 23:04:33 GMT -5
hm. We def should add something in the "Read before you apply" thing that says something like, "if you don't know who's in Rx, don't bother apping"
usually for most clans, its okay to just go an app, but we're different so it needs to be more apparent
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Post by Who? on Aug 18, 2011 23:19:05 GMT -5
Also, we should put something about it in the app evaluation "keep in mind when voting" thingy
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Post by iNoob on Aug 19, 2011 1:24:17 GMT -5
I like that ideas.
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Post by leadsnipe on Aug 20, 2011 13:52:06 GMT -5
^*those, these , your, who's. Instead of that •
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Post by mew on Aug 22, 2011 23:21:00 GMT -5
Shit looks messy on the forums, was alot easier back in the day. When i pulled my weight (Sorry ive lost my motivation to be involved now) , when vibe hated inoob then they got over it and inoob joined , when deathgod annoyed the fuck out of everybody here, when people who apped were just joining tron and the df scene along with ourselves just joining. I dunno i feel like everythings losing its way and evolving, which is natural .. but i always thought ancient history was much much funner and cooler then what modern times have come to today.
I felt like a much better dogfighter when this first started, when i used to have fun with tron. I think ive played this game for too long or maybe need to start up a different game type and stick to that for awhile. But i think this family is getting to the point of mexican family's. Where do you draw the limit? If in another years time will there be 40 members in the clan who are all amazing finds and best personalities in the world. anyway im sure this opionion will have people throwing all sorts of shit at me. And im prepared for that
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Post by Who? on Aug 23, 2011 0:08:02 GMT -5
I might throw shit at you, If I understood what you are talking about. Are you saying we have too many members?
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Post by mew on Aug 23, 2011 1:10:20 GMT -5
Im just rambling about how much i miss this time last year
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Post by mew on Aug 23, 2011 1:10:50 GMT -5
also we do have a fuckload of members, why do we need to recruit more?
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